Cable quizzes Brown on Afghanistan

12.20.47pm GMT Fri 14th Dec 2007

• [Dec 12]: Vincent Cable (Twickenham, Liberal Democrat): The death of Sergeant Johnson reminds us of how much is at stake here. I welcome the Prime Minister's statement, particularly the positive feedback from the conflict at Musa Qala, but is it not the case that all rural guerrilla armies attach little importance to holding towns, and that, conversely, the military command of NATO has acknowledged that it finds it very difficult to hold territory that it has cleared? What has fundamentally changed the dynamic of this conflict to give the Prime Minister a more optimistic view of the future?

In respect of the UK contribution, the Prime Minister made some helpful, sensible and practical suggestions about the supply of helicopters, but is it not the case that the number of functioning Apache helicopters has fallen from 60 per cent. to 50 per cent. over the last year? Is not one of the lessons the fact that we need to think more fundamentally about reorientating the defence budget towards immediate defence needs rather than those of the cold war? Will he have a fresh look at the very large £6 billion Typhoon commitment, which, if cancelled, would free up resources for immediate defence needs and troop welfare?

On the number of troops employed, is the judgment about numbers based on defence needs or is it simply reflecting the reality, acknowledged by the chiefs of staff, that British forces-including the 4,700 who were tied down at Basra airport providing cover for the continuing American presence in Iraq-are massively overstretched?

The Prime Minister is absolutely right to stress the importance of development assistance and we greatly welcome that, but is it not true that the annual budget of the Afghan Government on development is something in the order of £18 billion and that a large part of it is disappearing into waste and corruption? What is being done to introduce more effective safeguards?

The Prime Minister acknowledged the role of the poppy economy in the lives of peasant farmers in Afghanistan, so what is he doing to stop the indiscriminate destruction of poppy crops driving those farmers into the arms of the Taliban?

Finally, may I ask the Prime Minister about the precarious position of British public opinion? Is he aware that surveys in the past year suggest that a majority now favours withdrawal within a year and is increasingly concerned about the 86 deaths? There is a consensus among the parties in the House that we should continue to support the Afghan forces, but what is he going to do to persuade British public opinion that this activity is necessary and right?

• Gordon Brown (Prime Minister): I had hoped that there would be all-party agreement on what we are trying to achieve in Afghanistan. I am disappointed that the hon. Gentleman does not fully appreciate what I think is the central message of Afghanistan. Afghanistan is the front line against the Taliban and we must prevent the return of al-Qaeda to use the country as a base, and to do so, we must strengthen the politics, society and economy of Afghanistan. I hope that that will be common ground.

Where we have had to make sacrifices and where we are in for the long term, of course we must persuade the British public continuously of the importance of what we are doing. The hon. Gentleman asks what has changed in Musa Qala. What has changed is that we now have competent Afghan forces, which are able to move in and take control of the area with the support of the Americans, the British and other NATO forces. I believe that over the next period of time we shall see an ever more competent Afghan army, given support by trainers from Britain and elsewhere. At the same time, as I reported, people who either had an indirect relationship with the Taliban or were previously fighters are coming over and deciding that their future lies within the democratic constitution of Afghanistan.

As far as the weaponry is concerned, I mentioned that Merlin, Chinook and Sea King helicopters would be moving into Afghanistan in greater numbers over the next period of time. We need fast jets as well, as the Secretary of State for Defence reminded me, but the hon. Gentleman should not pose one against the other. We are determined not only to provide the equipment that we can for our forces, but to persuade other countries to share the burden. If there is one lesson of the past year or two, it is that we can, if we work at it, persuade other countries to play a bigger role in making their contribution to Afghanistan.

The hon. Gentleman also raised the issue of heroin. It is true that half the heroin of the world comes out of Helmand province. It is also true that although we have made huge progress in other provinces, where poppy growing has ceased, we have not made the progress that we want to make in Helmand. Addressing that issue will mean a mixture of things. I hope that he would agree that it will mean eradication of the crops on the ground, rather than aerial bombing, as well as persuading people to take up different activities. This is not a short-term easy win for us, but something that we have to work at over the next period of time.

One of the ways we can do that is by strengthening what the hon. Gentleman rightly said is a weakness-the central Government of Afghanistan. Of course there has been corruption, and waste and failure, but it is important to remind ourselves that progress has been made. However, as I stressed to President Karzai when I met him, it is important that he should have Ministers in place who command confidence. It is also important that he should work with the development effort, which should be more co-ordinated, on behalf of the 38 nations involved in Afghanistan. If we can do both those things over the next year, I believe that we shall see greater progress.

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