Clegg and Webb quiz Brown

12.39.00pm GMT Thu 6th Mar 2008

[Mar 05] Nicholas Clegg (Sheffield, Hallam, Liberal Democrat): May I- [Interruption.]

Michael Martin (Speaker): Order. I call the right hon.- [Interruption.] Order. I call the right hon. Gentleman.

Nicholas Clegg (Sheffield, Hallam, Liberal Democrat): . . The Prime Minister once said that he would, "build a wider pro-European movement in Britain". How does he think he can achieve that by colluding with the anti-European Conservatives to block the in-out referendum that the British people really want?

Gordon Brown (Prime Minister): By not walking out of the House of Commons, for a start. By not saying that there is a principle in abstention when it comes to a European issue. I tell the right hon. Gentleman that we will lead the agenda on the future of Europe, and that we will lead on the environment, international development, the approach to globalisation and security. There is not much principle in recommending abstention.

Nicholas Clegg (Sheffield, Hallam, Liberal Democrat): The Prime Minister talks about leadership, but the fact is that he has bottled it and, as far as I can make out, the leader of the Conservatives wants to leave the European Union but has not got the guts to say it. Is not the truth that this country will never lead in Europe until politicians who believe in the European Union have the courage to stand up for it, and politicians who want to leave it are flushed out in an honest debate on our membership?

Gordon Brown (Prime Minister): I agree with the right hon. Gentleman entirely. The Conservative party leadership is being driven by the Eurosceptics on the Back Benches. I also agree with him that we need to put the pro-European case in the country, but I have to say that to go back to the 1970s and re-live a referendum in the 1970s is not the way to plan for the future. The way to plan for the future is to have an agenda for a global Europe, which is exactly what this Government have.

. . Steve Webb (Northavon, Liberal Democrat): With the prison population at record levels, Prison Service managers are understandably trying to use every available place that they can find. For Members of this House with open prisons in their constituencies, there is a concern that security vetting is being relaxed because there are spare places in open prisons. Will the Prime Minister ensure that there is an investigation and will he guarantee that security vetting will not be relaxed simply because of pressure on prison places?

Gordon Brown (Prime Minister): I understand that security vetting does take place. The important thing for the hon. Gentleman to recognise is that we have created 20,000 more prison places over the past 10 years. Even this year there will be a rise in prison places from 82,000 to 85,000 and we will create 15,000 more prison places in the years to come. The reason that we are doing that is that we have brought more offences to justice. Five years ago, 1 million offences were brought to justice; now the figure is 1.4 million. That is a tribute to good policing in this country, and it is because we have been prepared to invest in the police services through our public expenditure.