Rowen, Clegg, Smith and Barrett quiz Brown

10.27.32am BST (GMT +0100) Thu 21st May 2009

• Nicholas Clegg: ' . . TOUCHÉ, Mr. Speaker . . '

• [May 21] Paul Rowen (Rochdale, Liberal Democrat): May I also personally express my thanks to you, Mr. Speaker, and associate myself with the Prime Minister's remarks and expressions of condolence to the serviceman who lost his life?

There is widespread concern throughout the country and on all sides of the House about the Government's plans for the privatisation of Royal Mail. In that light, will the Prime Minister now reconsider those proposals?

Gordon Brown: We have put before the House-and our proposals are now in the other place-the problems that Royal Mail has to face up to. It is losing 5 million letters a year- [Laughter.] I mean it is losing 5 million letters in comparison with the number that were delivered in previous years. There is an £8 billion pensions deficit. I want to reassert to the House the need for new investment in Royal Mail- [Interruption.]

Michael Martin (Speaker): : Order. I will not allow anyone to barrack the Prime Minister. It will not be allowed-and that goes for the Leader of the Opposition as well.

Gordon Brown: Many measures in the Bill are supported unanimously on all sides of the House, and the fact is that we have to get new investment into Royal Mail. That is why we have invited outside parties to express their interest.

• Nick Clegg (Sheffield, Hallam, Liberal Democrat)I would like to add my own expressions of sympathy and condolence to the family and friends of Marine Jason Mackie, who, tragically, died in Helmand province last week serving us, our country and the people of Afghanistan.

Mr. Speaker, despite our differences in recent days, I would like to thank you for the immensely dignified way in which you made your statement yesterday -[Interruption.] We can now move forward to reform this place from top to toe. I am also pleased to hear from the Prime Minister that there will be a statement tomorrow on the Gurkhas, and I hope that they will receive the unqualified and full justice that they deserve- [Interruption.]

Michael Martin (Speaker): Order. The right hon. Gentleman is entitled to be heard; he must be heard.

• Nicholas Clegg: We now have a once-in-a-generation chance to change politics for good, but we will betray people's hopes and fail to offer a really different way of doing politics if all we do is remove a medieval expenses system, without fixing everything else. The expenses are just the tip of the iceberg. Does the Prime Minister see that, from party funding through to Whitehall secrecy, the whole way in which we do politics must now be transformed?

Gordon Brown: As for Whitehall secrecy, it was this Government who brought in the Freedom of Information Bill-and as for party funding, the Justice Secretary has brought forward measures to deal with that. I agree with the right hon. Gentleman, however, that, as part of the wider debate about the relationship between Parliament and the people and the accountability of Parliament to the people, we must listen to the views of people throughout the country. We must consult and hear what they have to say, and, as I said yesterday, we will put forward proposals on that in the next few weeks.

Michael Martin (Speaker): Mr. Sharma.

• Nicholas Clegg rose- [Interruption .]

Michael Martin (Speaker): Mr. Clegg.

• Nicholas Clegg: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Michael Martin (Speaker): I thought that there were two questions in the first one-but there we are.

• Nicholas Clegg: Touché, Mr. Speaker.

I am grateful to the Prime Minister for his reply, but is it not now time to get to the heart of the matter, which is that his Government are in power even though less than a quarter of the people voted for them? [Hon. Members: "Have an election!"] Of course we should have an election, but people do not want an election where all they will get is a few new faces but the same old rotten rules. Is it not true that any system in which so few votes give a Government so much power will always breed arrogance and secrecy?

Gordon Brown: Mr. Speaker, I was right to say that your generosity was unfailing to all Members of the House.

The right hon. Gentleman's point about the wider reforms and democracy is absolutely right: we must consider not only how Parliament can be more accountable to the people, but how the Executive themselves can be more accountable. We want to do that in the context of enhancing the individual and collective rights of citizens in their own communities to manage more of their own affairs. I am happy to enter that debate, and we will publish proposals in the next few weeks. We have also previously published proposals on the electoral system, which is also a matter for debate-but I must say to the Liberal Democrats that the debate about the reform of the constitution is about more than simply that one thing.

• . . Robert Smith (Aberdeenshire West & Kincardine, Liberal Democrat)The country has lost touch with the political system and with this Parliament. On the doorstep, it is clear that there is no confidence left in the Prime Minister's Government. Why does he not have the courage to trust the people and go to them and let them have a say on how this country should be run?

Gordon Brown: Mr. Speaker, we have work to do. The first work we have to do is to clean up the system in the House of Commons. It is for this Parliament to face up to its responsibilities, to change and to clean up the system. I believe that we have made progress, and the way to clean up the system is to take the action to do so. Secondly, we have a recession that we are trying to manage and come through. It is in the interests of the people of this country that we help people who are unemployed, help mortgage holders and help people with small businesses. I have not heard policies from people on the other side of the House that would actually do that.

• . . John Barrett (Edinburgh West, Liberal Democrat)With unemployment at over 2 million, does the Prime Minister agree that one way to create many more jobs and stimulate the economy would be to push forward with the high-speed rail network?

Gordon Brown: That is exactly what we are looking at.

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